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Author Topic: 9/11 Truthers and the 'Planted Explosives': Debunked!  (Read 11030 times)
Anarchology
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« on: August 06, 2009, 03:18:33 AM »

I know there are a great number of people who know their chemicals, explosive compounds, and what is needed in order to detonate said explosives when it comes to demolition on this site. I am one with an open people on this site that does give a benefit of the doubt. However, on many of the other forums I belong to (mostly political and automotive sites), I find people who are stuck on the idea that 9/11 was an inside job. Unfortunately, many of these same people have little to no actual understanding of explosives, let alone no understanding of chemistry and engineering.

Sad to say, I actually did fall into the 'conspiracy theorists' category shortly after 9/11 shortly after it happened out of my own disdain for the previous Bush Administration, but still was very skeptical when it came to their accounts of what they considered to be explosions and planted explosives. I kept asking myself, "This could have taken many tons of explosives (or thermite) to do the job, but how can there not be one single demolition contractor out of hundreds needed to come forward saying they were part of this?" Many of the conspiracy claims seemed to have just gotten way out of hand within the last couple years, and being led by many talking heads in radio, TV, and the mainly the internet.

I just feel that there are so many people out there who believe the happenings on 9/11 were that of what they call to be 'controlled demolitions', yet their own so-called proof is that of what seems to be explosions happening from the video provided on that day by various news organizations along with first person video footage. Unfortunately, they seem to never manage to explain the fact that there are countless things that could create explosions and bursts of confined air resulting in what seemed to be 'explosions'.

Below, I will break down many of the core stances from the Conspiracy Theorists with my own expertise, and research. I can already tell this thread might be a blood bath, and will bring the lurkers, but actually hope it does. I want a real Question/Answer Debate going on here.
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 03:19:33 AM »

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Anarchology
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 03:21:51 AM »

WTC Towers and Use of Explosives

Again, this was the most skeptical part of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theory that I personally had. The destruction of the Twin Towers by the use of a controlled demolition does not make sense under any circumstances when the understanding of explosives comes to play. People supporting the idea of 'explosives' being used in the Twin Towers seem to lack the understanding of demolition and explosives technology.

The Conspiracy Theory Regarding Planted Explosives:
People who believe in the 9/11 Conspiracy Theory have put their cornerstone on the idea that the destruction of the Twin Towers and WTC 6 were done by the use of explosives and/or thermite. The problem with this is the fact that many of these people have little to no knowledge of how these explosives are detonated, how placement is crucial, the time it takes to setup a building for demolition, and the huge amount of explosives needed in order to demolish a building. Easiest way put, it take a great deal of time and effort to prep a building for implosion.

Let us just take into account the man power, and time needed to plant explosives in a building for proper demolition. This is not something that can be done in a week, let alone somehow without being seen. This alone kills the 'planted explosives' theory out the window. Conspiracy buffs like to point out some training exercises done in a couple days weeks before the attacks as the "time they planted the explosives". Yeah, it isn't that easy. This isn't Mission Impossible. The time to orchestrate three buildings rigged with explosives would be months of preparation, and not a couple days. Not only that, but we are talking about hundreds of pounds of these explosives needed and properly placed with synchronized detonation. I only wonder who the conspiracy buffs come up with an explanation for how all of these pounds/tons of high explosives were setup in the buildings without anyone knowing what was going on.

High Explosives and Excessive Heat:
Yet another aspect of explosives that conspiracy theorist seem to miss when pointing out this idea of a controlled demo is how any certain explosives work under excessive heat, which they would have after the planes hit the towers, or as WTC 7 burned. The first idea of thermite being used would be thrown out, since excessive heat activates thermite. Once lit, there is no putting thermite out either, even under water. The plane strike would have certainly burned the thermite causing the buildings to come down shortly after. I'm not even pointing out how thermite burns in a downward gravitational motion, so vertical beams would be difficult to melt. Also many TONS of thermite would have been needed. Just think what one ton of powder the consistency of pepper must look like, and how difficult it would be to control.

Other explosive compounds used in demolition, mining, and blasting do fail from excessive heat. If they don't fail, then their ignition mechanisms would. For high explosives that need booster agents (blasting cap or secondary/primary setup), these would prematurely deflagrate. This means they would burn, but not explode to their full potential. This would be seen with commonly known high explosives such as dynamite, C-4, and ANFO (used in the Oklahoma City bombing). Related in a sense, many people don't understand that the vast majority of high explosives are not easily detonated. You don't just poke a fireworks wick in it to make it go boom. The vast majority of industry used high explosives need blasting caps and even other explosive boosters in order to properly ignite the compound. In a sense, these high explosives work in compounds. If you were to take a stick of dynamite, block of C-4, or bag of ANFO (ammonium nitrate and fuel oil); you would NOT be able to ignite them with a flame or wick. They will burn, but will not explode with the intensity as they do under proper ignition stepping.

Primary high explosives are usually insensitive on a destructive level to minimal heat, shock, or spark. This allows for them to easily be transported in large quantities with minimal worry. The explosive compositions within blasting caps used as boosters for the primary high explosives ARE usually very sensitive to heat and shock. Explosives commonly used in blasting caps include mercury fulminate, lead azide, lead styphnate and tetryl (Read more HERE). Due to the sensitivity of the explosive compounds within boosters, they are kept in small quantities and far from premature detonation.

What I am basically getting to is that primary high explosives will generally burn or melt down without proper detonation, and blasting cap boosters would detonate with the slightest of heat. You put both of those truths together along with the high intensity heat of the burning aircraft fuel, and you have explosive compounds capable of being anything but "controlled".

Explosive Detonation Sequence and Equipment:
There is much more to a proper demolition than just the blasting cap and primary explosives. Now, blowing a tree stump out of the ground using some ANFO, a proper electric blasting cap, and a 9 volt battery is one thing; orchestrating the demolition of 3 buildings is a whole 'nother beast. I think that the action movies have really gotten to many of the people behind the 'controlled demolition' conspiracy. When they think of explosives, they think of small blocks of gray clay with a small stainless steel remote control with a blinking light as the trigger. This is far from reality.

The reality when understanding the industrial implosion of buildings goes far beyond what many could even comprehend. I won't even go into the fact that buildings setup for implosion are stripped and weakened. Instead, I will point out the large amounts of technology and choreography needed to perform a proper building implosion.

The demolition project of taking down a building properly requires many tools that, not only must be properly sequenced, but also an immense amount of these items impossible to hide from view. We are talking about miles of wire, miles of booster explosive compounds such as Detonating Cord (Read more HERE), and highly detailed explosive triggering system. In controlled demolitions, the triggering system is setup to control hundreds, even thousands in some circumstances, of detonations within milliseconds of each other. This is all orchestration that takes weeks to months to properly setup, and to be detonated under controlled conditions. The controlled conditions would be after any kind of obstacles are out of the way. A major fire engulfing the majority of any building set for detonation would destroy much of this equipment. Excessive heat damage to any of the ignition properties would amount to either premature ignition, or failure.
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hellbillyusa
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2009, 07:18:00 PM »

ok, i'll bite.....................your critique of the "controlled demolition" is very valid, there were to many variables for that to have gone off as perfect as it did....or as they say it did.
i have a ton of friends that are just so "stuck" on the 9/11 was an inside job that i cant even convey the number to you, it makes me sick, now do i think our govt is capable of perpetrating an evil such as this?  Your are dam right they are but did they do a controlled demo of the twin towers, i do not think that either.
Could they have perpetrated this some other way, hell yeah but do i know how.............nope i dont!
My point here is that maybe they did and maybe they didnt and one way or the other i would like to know the truth of what happened, heck i would think poor construction and or sub par materials would be more to blame, heck this was build in NYC and everything there has corners cut to line somebodies pockets, just the way it's done there......oh and i lived and worked there so yeah i do know what i'm talking about here.
Well all that aside, my biggest peeve on the whole 911 was an inside job is that even if it was nobody will pay for it wxcept for a patsy perhaps but with the corruption in our govt anymore they will snowball it, spin it and make it go away, thats just reality folks.
So when i hear people touting the 911 thing i mention that my lil cousin was in the 2nd building to get hit, yes he did get out thank G-D but dont ya'll think that there's much more dire important shit going on today and tomorrow to worry about that what happened on 911, i mean really put your passion into fighting the socialism thaqt is beign shoved down our throats or the shitty health care bill that we are forced to take but our masters in the govt can choose what health care they want?
someday, G-D willing, things might be good here again and then, then is when we pour all the rage and passion into that but for now there are far more imminent and pressing matter to be putting your efforts and concentration into!  Bang Head


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ninefingers
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2009, 11:17:51 AM »

 Must as I distrust anything as powerful as the US government--I don't think they are efficient enough at conspiracies and cover-ups.  Perhaps the Mafia could have pulled it off, or a previous planting by Al Quada (s.p?).  (Scratch that, the Mafia are crooks but patriotic--even for money they wouldn't hurt their country that they can suck so much money off of . Especially if it meant possible bad press they could avoid.)
  Sooner or later someone connected with a Gov't plot would have come forward due to a  promised big payoff by the press--or, simply the notoriety.  There have been  C.T's since before Pearl Harbor--in almost 70 years, That hasn't been resolved because it  sells books.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 10:17:37 AM by ninefingers » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2009, 03:49:38 AM »

Trust me, I do distrust much of the government along with its present and past dealings. Still, many of the CT's coming out are just too far fetched to say the least. Still, I can see some possibilities to some, and I emphasize SOME, CT's. For one would be the Roswell "crash" and the Assassination of Kennedy. Those are two very iffy ones that I can't really weigh in one way or another.

I know when it comes to the Kennedy Assassination, they brought all the files out about a year ago, but then felt they would keep them locked up for another 50 years until everyone who would have possibly known or lived during the time when JFK was alive would already be dead. Why would they do that? I'm not saying one way or another on that one, but just that alone is pretty fucked up!
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Notimeforsorrows
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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2009, 05:46:20 PM »

Well I haven't exactly gone through all the reading yet, seeing as I'm in a hurry, but I want to throw in my two cents.

It IS possible that it was an inside job, but it is very likely that the planes can make the explosions that big just by themselves.  Especially with the altitudes their flying at, creating more pressure, so when the collision started opening the plane up, all that pressure is released from the cabin and can ignite a higher intensity for an explosion.  But this is my own current theory.  I'll do some research when I get back. Along with reading your paragraphs.   Smiley
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ninefingers
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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2009, 06:39:32 PM »

There wouldn't be much pressure in the cabin when flying at 1,000 ft or so altitude.   Cabins are only pressurized to 10,000 feet or so, anyway--it would be like a slight negative pressure.  The WTC was not built to spec or to take a 757 impact, just a 747--this came out in NOVA.  Just like you said, hellbilly.
  My Dad saw the aftermath of the B-25 that hit the Empire state building on Dec. 26, 1945--it was flying at 1,000 ft, they were not pressurized in those days, and hit the only thing they could--the ESB.  :wow:In those days, my Daddy once said;  the best/cheapest workers were Americans, as a lot of  good , experienced construction workers would work for peanuts just for a job.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 10:34:13 AM by ninefingers » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 07:43:24 PM »

Well I haven't exactly gone through all the reading yet, seeing as I'm in a hurry, but I want to throw in my two cents.

It IS possible that it was an inside job, but it is very likely that the planes can make the explosions that big just by themselves.  Especially with the altitudes their flying at, creating more pressure, so when the collision started opening the plane up, all that pressure is released from the cabin and can ignite a higher intensity for an explosion.  But this is my own current theory.  I'll do some research when I get back. Along with reading your paragraphs.   Smiley

I'm actually going to make another couple deeply explained posts regarding there being so many valid reasons for small explosions. One easy explanation would be any number of combustible and explosive compounds that can be found in any office, let alone your own REPORT-THIS-SPAM at home. Something as simple as an aerosol can under intense heat can not only explode but create enough energy to blow our a window.
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ninefingers
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 09:08:50 PM »

Oh, I see. Sorry, notimeforsorrows, didn't get you the first time.  The air compressed inside the cabin by the impact could be released suddenly and explosively....No. I think simple impact was most of it, coupled with inadequate design/fuel explosion , hair spray, etc.
   Plus  turbine engines at 25,000 RPM have a Lot of inertia, and will probably bust loose and precess like a slowing top while doing damage that does look explosive. I've had hi speed motors explode on me--scary.
  I had a paint can go off in my garage; it blew the base off like it was cut by a knife.  The base went thru sheet rock while the nozzle rocketed gold paint across the room.  Ever put a Bic lighter in a fire? Even they  can blow off a finger and cut a hole in an aluminum fireplace screen.

  Just saw "Fahrenheit 9/11". (9/13)   Better than BFC--it sure makes Bush look bad, if it is true...  Still, Michael Moore didn't get to his point and say just How there was a conspiracy--how it could have been done. Just stuff on why Bush may have  wanted us in Iraq so a pipeline could be built thru to carry oil and gas for his company in Texas.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 10:37:03 AM by ninefingers » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2009, 12:56:34 PM »

Well, all I heard was the fuel in the aeroplane burning wouldn't be hot enough to weaken the steel, but perhaps this is wrong, but other than the fact that planes hit both buildings i think this event was quite strange in many ways.
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kfc2309
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« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2009, 12:45:20 AM »

From the videos I've seen, I'm a firm believer when it comes to fucking Bush blowing up the Twin Towers. They used thermite to cut the support beams so the building would shift over a little bit and fall.

For the people that thing it's the fire that melted the steel, that's bullshit. There is no way that could happen. There are other sky scrapers that burned for 20 hours straight in other countries and it never fell. The only 3 to ever fall because of a fire was WTC 1,2, and 7. The lease holder for the WTCs said on camera that he had to "pull it" for WTC 7.

If you were to put the science behind all of it and it "pancaked" like they said then it would have taken a while for it to collapse but it only took 10 seconds for both of them to fall and that's at free-fall speed.

Anyone curious about all this needs to watch Loose Change on YouTube or whatever and figure that shit out for yourself.
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kckckool7
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« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2009, 10:40:26 PM »

I'm sorry, but Bush absolutely was not competent enough to pull off a conspiracy of this mangnitude.
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kfc2309
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« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2009, 11:24:22 PM »

It was his dad and his administration that wanted the "New World Order" and I think he is trying to continue that legacy. He is a fuck up and he should have been stopped with an investigation but they won't fucking do it. It's sad that it has gone this long. They went to meeting after meeting and they would have given over Osama Bin Laden if they had proof but they don't have it. On the FBI website, he is one of the most wanted men alive but they don't have the 911 incident on that record because they have no proof. Someone did it. It might not have been completely his idea because they are all fucked up in the mind but there were demolition teams that had to have done it.

They said that there were 2 weeks at a time where there were teams of people and security that would close down sections of the WTC for "unknown" reasons and then this happened. That right there would have been a red flag but no one figured that someone was that stupid to do all this. Like you said, this is something of monstorous magnitude but no one thought that was possible to be that evil.

Also, there are hundreds of cameras all over the most protected building in the world, the Pentagon, but we only had five frames of bullshit that we can't even see that there was a plane that hit. If it was a plane that hit the Pentagon then there would have been marks in the lawn from the plane but where is it? Where is the engines from the plane? Four multi ton engines are no where to be found. Why? No fuselage. No wings. Nothing bigger than a phonebook just like they said for the plane in Shankesville.
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ninefingers
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2009, 06:20:21 PM »

Really Good Points, but please turn off that red text! I can barely see it even with contrast/brightness up all they way.

EDIT: Oppenheimer, and that's with a New monitor.

EDIT: kckckoll7; you're right. As I said in an old post, not Bush, but  maybe the Mafia could have done it ,and I don't think   they would bite the hand that feeds them.  Any civilians or nerds Bush got to do it would screw it up or eventually come forward for a reward or the notoriety of exposing it. It has been eight years; I've heard nothing.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 09:11:22 AM by ninefingers » Logged
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